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Susanne Preissl (SP):<\/b> The arts are very well suited because they enable protest to be lodged in a subversive way while avoiding direct confrontation. To this end, we go for emotions\u2014because doing so triggers people on a less rational level. That\u2019s the great opportunity and potential of the arts in the realm of protest.<\/p>\n
Golnar Shahyar (GS):<\/b> Art is also the language of solidarity. It\u2019s an emotional language and embodies forms of expression that reflect our feelings, our worries, and our identities. What\u2019s more, it provides us with visions. And by coming together, we strengthen ourselves as a community\u2014which is what ultimately makes art and music so powerful: they bring people together.<\/p>\n
Eva Puchner (EP):<\/b> Moreover, involving art serves to engender shared, playful attentiveness. Before people hit the streets in the climate protests, they met up to create posters and banners together. That made an essential contribution to the public\u2019s awareness of those protests.<\/p>\n
Marko K\u00f6lbl (MK):<\/b> Alongside music as a form of onstage art, one can also conceive of it as everyday practice. At protests, the point is to send a message. When you take to the streets with the intent of getting this or that content across, putting it to rhythms and melodies is a natural thing to do. That kind of music is participative and democratic; everyone can be part of it, regardless of whether they\u2019re great singers.<\/p>\n
Do protest songs work so well because everyone can sing them?<\/p>\n
MK:<\/b> Yes\u2014because they\u2019re participative, but also because they stand for something.<\/p>\n
GS:<\/b> Protest songs with a direct message need to be understood by a broad audience. You have to be able to move to the rhythm no matter how musical a person you are. The melodies need to be easy to sing and connected in some way with existing cultural memories. And if you combine all that with meaningful lyrics, you\u2019ve got a successful protest song.<\/p>\n
Is there any particular art form or genre that\u2019s particularly well suited to protest?<\/p>\n
MK:<\/b> Melodic chanting of demands at demonstrations could almost be considered a genre in its own right. And onstage, you can find protest in nearly all genres\u2014with only classical music being less strongly represented.<\/p>\n
GS:<\/b> Protest songs do get performed onstage, and signals of support do come when crises and directly related socio-political themes are at issue. But one mustn\u2019t forget the fundamental problems within the system, and in this respect, another type of resistance work exists that\u2019s being done by artists who focus on such chronic and systemic problems. I\u2019m thinking of discrimination, colonialism, and capitalism, which cause a whole lot of other art forms to be excluded. This type of resistance should also be considered protest. It\u2019s difficult to position a vision in the present context, which is why art that challenges the system is so important.<\/p>\n
So is it the responsibility of artists to take a stand on societally relevant themes? Does art have to be political?<\/p>\n Simon Scharinger (SS):<\/b> Well, I\u2019d say that it should at least try to be. As artists, we have a stage available to us and the ability to attract attention\u2014and neglecting to make use of these things means wasted potential.<\/p>\n MK:<\/b> I don\u2019t think, though, that artists have to be socio-politically engaged, even if I do like artists who are\u2014above all when what they\u2019re doing matches my own political views. And there are enough artists who are and\/or want to remain apolitical. But what I do have difficulty with in this context is the exaltation of artistic personalities and this assumption that they\u2019re not permitted to make mistakes or have political views that deviate from one\u2019s own. Andreas Gabalier, for example, has taken a stand against gender-inclusive formulations in our national anthem\u2014which is also a form of protest.<\/p>\n GS:<\/b> Art is a socio-political thing that shouldn\u2019t rest on the shoulders of individual people. How can I link music and other forms of cultural expression with social or political themes? We should make a theme of that. And what\u2019s our mission in doing so? Unfortunately, this isn\u2019t happening on the institutional level. Art and high culture are kept separate from social and political themes. But the power of music lies in communication and connection, which cause people to feel either excluded or included. And it\u2019s institutions\u2019 job to subject artists to this discussion in order to create an awareness in this respect.<\/p>\n EP:<\/b> In my view, we have an obligation to use our art in order to highlight things that are going seriously wrong. And I can remember one moment in the course of political events where the urge to raise our voices was so great that it was impossible to do otherwise.<\/p>\n Which means that artists process themes that preoccupy them and are hence per se socially critical?<\/p>\n SP:<\/b> It can\u2019t work any other way. Eva and I only ended up finding each other because we had the need to say something, to express ourselves. We got to know each other at the IKM, the mdw\u2019s Department of Cultural Management and Gender Studies, which is also where we also conceived and developed our programme. As people who do a lot of work in the feminist context, we put some thought about how we could position our statement. We quickly realised that we had to shift from the stage to open spaces\u2014for reasons including how it\u2019s there that you encounter people whom you wouldn\u2019t meet at a theatre. People who have zero intention of engaging with art. All this grew out of an original desire to combat unequal treatment on the basis of gender.<\/p>\n What\u2019s been your experience, protesting in public spaces? How do such things land?<\/p>\n EP:<\/b> It differs; sometimes we receive feedback where it\u2019s about empowerment, where we\u2019ve inspired women to keep fighting and also share their stories with us. That\u2019s wonderful. But we also experience negative, even aggressive behaviour towards us\u2014mainly from men. There was one situation that I remember particularly well. We were spending a week positioned on Karlsplatz for a performance. The first day, a young man asked us what we feminists were even doing here and whether we were out of a job. But a couple days later, he came back and told us that he\u2019d gotten informed about our topic and that what we were doing wasn\u2019t so bad. That experience was only possible because we\u2019d stayed in one place for a long time.<\/p>\n What\u2019s necessary in order to be able deal with these important themes as an artist in the first place?<\/p>\n GS:<\/b> It takes not only an incredible amount of time and energy to become an expert in the field of music but also even more knowledge and energy in order to get familiar with the music business and hold one\u2019s own in it. That\u2019s why musicians are typically overloaded and have very little time to concentrate on anything but the survival of their art as such. And as a freshly trained musician, you\u2019re too politically and socially weak to take a stand. Instead, you have to put up with everything. So when we speak of socio-political engagement in the arts, we have to be sure to shape our system such that freelance artists can actually pursue such engagement.<\/p>\n MK:<\/b> I\u2019m 100 percent with you, here\u2014which is why I think we need to insist that institutions assume this socio-political responsibility.<\/p>\n SS:<\/b> That\u2019s exactly it: nice words are not enough. Important messages and political positions are often conveyed exclusively in press conferences; in a structural sense, however, the status quo remains as is. So we have to learn to distinguish between superficial cosmetic surgery and action that promotes real change\u2014and to drive forward and cultivate this type of protest.<\/p>\n What does that mean in a concrete sense?<\/p>\n SS:<\/b> It means various things, but above all working on oneself. Protest always begins with the little stuff: with questioning one\u2019s own structures and patterns, with putting oneself through the wringer. Protest requires effort, and it\u2019s never-ending; it\u2019s not enough to just post something or stroll along with a demonstration. You can never just check it off and sit back. Quite often, protest does \u201cjust\u201d mean being a good ally, providing support in the background and freeing up space for others. But sometimes, saying nothing is also a political act. Every year on 8 March, I get this flood of social media posts by artists declaring their solidarity\u2014but their grandstanding really just serves to occupy the space of other artists. I\u2019m a performer and a musician myself, and it\u2019s often difficult to strike a balance in this respect. In the a cappella music cabaret project Gesangskapelle Hermann, my colleagues and I try to support causes that are important to us\u2014sometimes subversively, sometimes actively, and sometimes by just holding back and showing reserve. But ultimately\u2014and this is something we always need to keep in mind\u2014we\u2019re musicians first and foremost, and our main goal is to entertain and to get people laughing.<\/p>\n EP:<\/b> One also has to be able to afford protest and find time for it\u2014after all, it\u2019s not always paid. And all the artistic work, engaging with things and learning them, is an intensive process that takes a lot of time.<\/p>\n So can protest also influence one\u2019s career?<\/p>\n EP:<\/b> Of course, and you do need to be careful. As part of Kill the Trauerspiel, an association that advocates diversity and gender equality on Austria\u2019s stages, I\u2019m repeatedly confronted with the problem of people being unable to engage with this issue out of fear that their political involvement could have negative repercussions in terms of their employment or their artistic work. But it\u2019s especially regarding this issue that institutions are the ones who have to take action. So I think that policymakers have a responsibility, here.<\/p>\n GS:<\/b> If you want to be politically and socially active, there\u2019s a whole area of knowledge all its own that you need to acquire. You have to devote really intensive study to it; otherwise, it all remains superficial. So I\u2019ll take time that I\u2019d really need for my music and instead attend a seminar in order to get current on the state of discourse. Your art suffers from that, but that\u2019s reality.<\/p>\n MK:<\/b> So far, here, we\u2019ve been talking about artists who get politicised and take a stand on something. But sometimes, the most powerful act of protest can be to sing a folksong in a language that\u2019s banned or frowned upon in your own country. As a Burgenland Croat myself, I think back to a time when Croatian wasn\u2019t something that people liked hearing. Back then, you were already being radical, automatically political, just by singing a song in your own language.<\/p>\n So it would follow that art also constitutes protest when you practice it in a country where it\u2019s forbidden\u2026<\/p>\n MK:<\/b> Absolutely. In my research, I\u2019ve been looking at Afghan music and the implicit music ban that\u2019s been in effect in Afghanistan since the summer of 2021. Making music is a violation of the law and hence a form of protest. That goes all the more for women, who seldom made music in the pre-Taliban era to begin with. But the political context can also inject content into forms of cultural expression that one might think are pretty everyday.<\/p>\n Like where?<\/p>\n MK:<\/b> I\u2019m thinking here of a performance by the Vengaboys on Ballhausplatz after Austria\u2019s turquoise-blue coalition government had fallen. Their song \u201cWe\u2019re Going to Ibiza\u201d is a good example of music that doesn\u2019t contain a message of protest per se but took on such a message in the context of specific events\u2014in this case, the Ibiza affair\u2014and thus became political. That song became a hymn of the anti-government protest movement and even ended up topping the Austrian Spotify charts.<\/p>\n So protest art or culture can become so successful that it ends up going mainstream? What does that mean in terms of the issues themselves?<\/p>\n SS:<\/b> That\u2019s one of those things where I think you have to perceive the greater whole. Insofar as the original thing doesn\u2019t vanish and it all generates an even larger critical mass that can set something in motion in its own right, I think it\u2019s okay. And you don\u2019t have to agree with everything. At the Black Lives Matter demonstrations, I was repeatedly upset by (white) participants who, it seemed to me, were concerned mainly with partying and generating their next Instagram posts. But even so, those people did contribute to that movement\u2019s success. And to be honest, I\u2019ve likewise already gone to demonstrations where I was looking forward to nothing more than spending the time with my friends.<\/p>\n MK:<\/b> Protesting can and should also be fun.<\/p>\n SP:<\/b> And for my part, I notice how it\u2019s a good thing when protesting or pursuing our form of art doesn\u2019t stop being fun. Because it\u2019s also not always easy subjecting oneself to the public, because you get negative vibes, too.<\/p>\n SS:<\/b> And you really do accomplish a lot with fun and enthusiasm. The theatrical world hasn\u2019t quite understood that, yet\u2014or they\u2019ve forgotten about it. If all I do is hold moralising sermons and portray problems one-to-one in a completely obvious way (thereby also reproducing them), I definitely won\u2019t succeed in reaching the audience. And I almost get the feeling that the joyless, accusatory theatre of our era isn\u2019t even intended<\/i> to reach the audience\u2014that they\u2019re more concerned with checking some supposedly existent box and bathing themselves in virtue. I\u2019m missing the contradictions, the grey areas, the actual stories.<\/p>\n GS:<\/b> I think that every situation requires its own energy. Art and music have the power to set feelings in motion. I\u2019m thinking of Iran, where rap music has become a channel for pent-up rage; that energy is needed there. It moves the masses and brings them together.<\/p>\n Keeping this idea of the mainstream in mind: we\u2019re noticing how even entire musical styles that were originally protest-focused are getting co-opted and commercialised.<\/p>\n MK:<\/b> A good example of that is house, which originated in a black, queer, underground setting but then got totally whitewashed and is now the most apolitical genre one could imagine. It\u2019s interestingly how such developments always run along \u201cracial divides\u201d. As soon as a musical style departs from its black origins and starts getting commercialised, it turns into a white musical style. That happens with lots of styles of popular music.<\/p>\n GS:<\/b> And if one\u2019s socially and politically active at the institutional level, it\u2019s imperative to perceive such things and support communities from which such art has been taken.<\/p>\n What might educational institutions be able to contribute, here?<\/p>\n GS:<\/b> Lots, but it unfortunately won\u2019t be enough. Even just the knowledge that art is a socio-political act doesn\u2019t exist. That awareness needs to be created. It\u2019s a cultural policy theme, which means that it\u2019s a type of discourse that also needs to play out at the political level.<\/p>\n EP:<\/b> In actual fact, the idea of protest hasn\u2019t been a theme at classically focussed arts universities. It was only at the IKM that something one of our teachers said inspired me to put my art to political use.<\/p>\n MK:<\/b> I think it also depends on the art form. In fine and applied art, political work has a long tradition. But it\u2019s not as easy in classical music, since what we\u2019re talking about there is mainly an interpretive art form. It has a canon, and that canon is established: it\u2019s white, male, heterosexual, Christian, European, etc. And it\u2019s about being interpreting the music in a way that\u2019s as correct as possible, which is also something that\u2019s pre-determined. All that leaves little space for any political elaboration, which is why it\u2019s important to reflect upon that canon and subject its fixity and rigidity to criticism. However, I do think that something is changing here at the mdw\u2014as we now see in the anchoring of gender and diversity coursework in all programmes of study.<\/p>\n Mr. Scharinger, you were already working with the topic of protest as a student\u2026<\/p>\n SS:<\/b> I staged a production of Vaclav Havel\u2019s play Protest<\/i> for the festival Neues Wiener Volkstheater. Peter Roessler, a professor of dramaturgy at the Max Reinhardt Seminar, recommended this material to me\u2014and I fell in love with it straight off. Furthermore, a lot of things got set in motion internally by my continued investigation of its author, since Havel himself more or less exemplifies how the arts and politics can be linked: as a dissident who wrote plays in prison, as Czechoslovakia\u2019s president following the Velvet Revolution in 1989, and then as the Czech Republic\u2019s first president, he\u2019s an unbelievably fascinating figure, for sure.<\/p>\n Are there any examples from the recent past in which art has effectively supported protest movements?<\/p>\n MK:<\/b> One that I can think of is the Thursday Demonstrations against the government, protests that all kinds of sound and performative expression allowed to be heard and seen in all kinds of ways. Isabel Frey was there with Yiddish revolutionary songs, there were the rhythmic groups that so often turn up, and there were also those short melodic chants that were improvised on the spot.<\/p>\n Another example would be songs that end up becoming political. The famous Afghan song Sarzamine-man <\/i>(\u201cMy Homeland\u201d), originally a Turkish Arabesque pop number, was about fleeing from the first Taliban regime during the 1990s. It made a comeback amidst the 2015 migrations and again following the Taliban\u2019s renewed rise to power in 2021. You also heard this memorable song played over and over at a major demonstration that was held in support of the right to asylum in Vienna. I think it\u2019s very interesting how certain songs with political connotations keep coming back\u2014for unfortunate reasons, one has to say.<\/p>\n GS:<\/b> There\u2019s one protest song by the Iranian musician Shervin Hajipour, entitled Baraye<\/i>, that got recognised at this year\u2019s Grammy Awards. For its lyrics, the singer collaged tweets that people had posted about why they were hitting the streets to demonstrate, tweets expressing very lovely, integrative, inclusive desires. It was about those freedoms that you\u2019re denied living under such a dictatorship. Her song became the anthem of this Iranian revolution and moved the masses. It\u2019s an important example of just how influential a piece of music can be. See this issue\u2019s article \u201cMusic as a Voice of Protest in Iran\u201d.<\/p>\n SP:<\/b> What\u2019s definitely also cause for hope is the graffiti by Banksy in Ukraine that shows a child throwing a judoka to the ground. It\u2019s a pointed reminder of the conditions in that country, but it\u2019s also something that one can look to again and again for hope.<\/p>\n GS:<\/b> Hope is important\u2014as are visions. That\u2019s what art does: it gives us visions. I\u2019ve also written my first protest song now, too. I\u2019d always thought that I\u2019d convey my protest differently, and it was never something I\u2019d lent direct expression to. But sometimes you do have to speak out directly.","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Brutpflegerinnen members Eva Puchner and Susanne Preissl, mdw graduates Golnar Shahyar and Simon Scharinger, and Department of Folk Music Research and Ethnomusicology head Marko K\u00f6lbl discuss whether art has to be political and \ufeffthe contexts in which it can support protest movements.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":86,"featured_media":8717,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[1362,1373,1374,854],"class_list":["post-8712","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-special","tag-2023-2","tag-protest","tag-protestlieder","tag-special"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8712","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/86"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=8712"}],"version-history":[{"count":12,"href":"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8712\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":8959,"href":"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8712\/revisions\/8959"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/8717"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=8712"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=8712"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=8712"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.mdw.ac.at\/magazin\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/post-1_image8-200x300.jpg\")
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